Shelter from the Avatar storm
I hope you loved Avatar because there aren’t going to be many places to hide from it between now and March 7 when it wins multiple Oscars.
With pretty unanimous praise from the top critics (I wish I had some of whatever was in the Kool-Aid they drank when they watched this thing last week), general agreement from the internet masses and what’s shaping up as terrific international box office success, Avatar is going to be this year’s The Dark Knight where any resistance is shot down, stepped on and set on fire – only this time you can probably add copious awards to the mix. At least The Dark Knight was worthy of the affection.
Oh, also: be prepared to hear that ghastly Leona Lewis song everywhere you go for the next few months (was I the only one who audibly groaned every time they said “I see you” in the movie knowing the godawful sonic horror it was intentionally invoking?).
The question is: will there be anywhere to hide?
Except for this post, I’m going to try to avoid engaging in the backlash. I can already feel it welling up inside me with every new gushing response streaming from between blue-stained lips and nothing good can come from it. Avatar is a decent movie. That it’s getting praise far beyond its real cinematic measure doesn’t detract from what it is. I can’t make any promises, but I’m going to try to shut up about it.
Luckily, there are pockets of resistance forming besides LiC. I hesitate to pull a Jeff Wells and start trumpeting every critic I can find who happens to share my own narrow view of things, but Jim Emerson put up a funny and dead-on takedown of Avatar that everyone needs to read. He doesn’t even pause to mock the screenplay which even the most enthusiastic of critics have to admit was lacking in just about every way. Instead Jim gets right to the heart of the matter and the very thing that bugged me the most about it – the stunning lack of imagination behind it all:
“As much as I delight in the look of the Na’vi characters themselves, the biggest disappointment of Avatar for me is the visual design – a kitschy melange of 1970s Roger Dean album covers by day, and Thomas Kinkade “Painter of Light” Christmas-twinkle scenes by night. (The nighttime forest on the planet Plankton — er, Pandora — also seems to be based on the neon-glow alien life forms from The Abyss, which at least made some kind of National Geographic sense in the earlier film because they lived in a world of perpetual darkness deep in the ocean.)
In the past, Cameron has pushed the envelope of cinema technology and brought to life images we’d never encountered before: the water tentacle in The Abyss, the liquid metal T-1000 in Terminator 2: Judgment Day, the Titanic in Titanic… His imagination has failed him across the board here. The CGI canvas is larger, but there’s little you haven’t already seen in better movies. Hammerhead dinosaurs sporting peacock feathers? OK, that’s a new one — but the creatures look silly and random (not to mention that they make no evolutionary sense). Ten-foot-tall blue salamanders riding day-glo psychedelic-patterned winged serpents? Sadly, they just look like forgotten old black light posters from some ’60s head shop.”
Love the Kinkade jab.
Emerson also takes on the 3D which is bogus and does more to pull you out of the film than it does to draw you in. He has the same issue with objects in the foreground being out of focus that I’ve been ranting about in assorted comment threads. 3D is a toy. It’s a nifty gimmick; an excuse to encourage people to watch stuff in theaters instead of on TV while allowing the theaters to charge more for a ticket. If I liked Avatar enough to see it again, I’d watch it in 2D.
Emerson isn’t alone on Avatar. The pockets of dissent are out there: Devin Faraci. Mr. Beaks. Stephanie Zacharek. Kieth Uhlich.
Filed under: Opinion
Tags: Avatar, Jim Emerson
I need a place to stay until after March 7th because I freakin’ hated the damn thing.
It’s so elementary – visually tapped into the future, yet narratively stuck in the past. The characterizations, the plotting, the dialogue – all blatantly lazy. It has all the sensibility and charisma of a 160-minute Disney cartoon. (Hold my arm while I shoot this bow + arrow).
Twelve years and this Pocahontas re-skin is the best he could come up with!?!? The film doesn’t even have the gall to come up with some decent names. “Pandora”, “Avatar”, “Hometree” — this sounds like a young adult novel…
Nope, nowhere to hide. I feel for you, Craig. I know what it’s like to be the lone person who thinks differently than the public collective about something.
Hahah Chase. I’m glad I didn’t hate it because the next few months would be unbearable. I fear they’re going to MAKE me hate it.
Alison, in the grand scheme of things, it could be worse.
LOL, it could always be worse.
I would agree that Cameron slacked in the naming dept on this one.
Also…”unobtanium”? Really? I know it’s a word scientists use for metals that don’t exist…but in the context of the story, it does exist so it’s a stupid f’ing name.
Since I thought TDK was beyond over-rated, revenge thy name is AVATAR!
Will there be shelters from the Precious and Up in the Air storms built here too? I fear this one is too hip for me.
And why is “perpetual darkness” the only environment where bio-luminescence would come in handy? Tell that to the fireflies. Try telling that to any raver.
“…1970s Roger Dean album covers…”
I knew it reminded me of something (and I own most of those albums)! It’s been driving me crazy trying to figure out what.
Anyway, thanks for providing this shelter.
I have absolutely zero interest in seeing Avatar, and that hasn’t changed through all the hype and hysteria. I’m not a big fan of Cameron’s previous work, I hated Titanic and, while I can enjoy a vfx/action extravaganza every now and then, I generally don’t go out of my way to see them. Also, I rarely pay to see movies at the cineplex, and it is unlikely that I will be invited to a screening of Avatar now that the SAG noms have been announced. (Although I’m sure that I could get into one if I really wanted to.)
And I don’t need to see Avatar to know which categories it will win when I’m filling out my Oscar ballot in March. In fact, cold, blue disinterest is usually the best way to go in these matters anyway.
So I guess this will be my last post on the subject, because I can’t talk about something I haven’t seen, and by the time it’s all over I will probably be the only person online who hasn’t seen Avatar…and Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen…
…by the time it’s all over I will probably be the only person online who hasn’t seen Avatar…and Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen…
You and me both, Paul.
Here’s lookin’ at you (not blue kitty catwomen), kid.
To get maximum mileage out of this idea, Craig, you should open another shelter where people who haven’t seen Avatar — and have no intention of seeing it — can all gather to mock it too.
I can just feel the backlash ready to explode here. I have to say, I kind of feel it growing inside me as well, and I liked the movie. I mean. I liked it a lot while I was watching it, problems and all, but I’ll admit I get a little satisfaction reading the negative reviews for some reason. Not sure what that says.
I rate it below a lot of his other movies. I love the visuals, some nifty set-pieces…I do LIKE the movie, and I’m trying to resist turning against it, which feels very easy to do when you really think about what’s beneath the visuals. It’s not even the bad dialogue. in fact I enjoy his bad dialogue; it’s cheesy, and funny.
I think it’s the story itself though, and the way it’s structured and executed. The beat-for-beat familiar plotting represents the James Cameron of “Titanic”. I still say “Avatar” is a vastly superior film, but it’s the same commercial, safe move as a storyteller. For this film, which pushes so many technological buttons….you’d think the story would take some risk in order to make those aesthetic innovations count for something. And since it doesn’t, I don’t see how you can really call this an important original work.
I’m actually thinking of skipping a second viewing. I feel like the curtains will close on the film if I let myself go back there. I’m glad it’s a success, perhaps this will allow him to take a few chances for the sequel.
Fantastic. Operatic. Sublimely beautiful. Emotionally Overwhelming. Visualy enrapturing. It moves on a level that few films have even attained to, much less succeeded on. AVATAR comes within a hair (for me) of the #1 position among 2009 films.
Chase Kahn, I could not disagree with you more, and completely reject your simplified dismissal in comment 1 on this thread.
America’s critics have called this exactly right. It’s a transcendent experience. A canvas of extrordinary beauty and and breathtaking visuals that are transporting. HELBOYS is kindergarten stuff next to this.
I walked out of theEdgewater multiplex this afternoon in tears. Yes, Ari, now everyone will line up and hit with the perceived “flaws.” Ask me if I care. I know what I just saw.
Ari: That statement you made there about it being “commercially safe” is the usual “concession” to those who don’t feel the magic. That could said about virtually every single American movie ever released.
Why do we all need to be so insecure that we must compromise our passion?
I say let it all hang out, just like the New York Film Critics On Line did. Why spoil the epiphany?
I’m glad you feel so strongly about it. I’m still in its corner, I am, I like the movie, and agree it has spectacular moments. I think a lot of it doesn’t work though.
I don’t put it anywhere near the #1 film of ‘09, but I give it a strong honorable mention.
It’s a #2 finish for me, it so appears.
Sam, please stop by once in a while at Awards Daily where you’ll find me and Sasha as ecstatic as you are. I miss your visits to the populist slums.
wait, every American movie ever made can be described as “commercially safe”? For someone with a deep knowledge of film history, like yourself, that’s probably the most baffling, surprising thing I’ve ever seen you write. Tell that to the New Hollywood of the 70s, or the indie filmmakers of the late 80s and early 90s. Tell that to Stanley Kubrick and Orson Welles. But that’s beside the point.
I’m glad you’re passionate about “Avatar”. That’s just an odd way to defend it.
I’ll elaborate on my comment. “Avatar” obviously HAS to work for the mainstream, commercial crowd. THat’s a given. That’s the nature of the business of expensive studio filmmaking. But making a movie accessible doesn’t mean you have to repeat what’s been done before literally beat-for-beat. I’m not saying “Avatar” needed to be as experimental as a Chris Marker film, I’m saying that even mainstream storytelling, especially in fantasy/escapism, can still take chances and defy expectation. His earlier work is proof of that. I don’t see how this film is anywhere near the emotional experience of “The Abyss”. Look, “Star Wars” has a common thematic arc and storyline, but at least there are a few surprises along the way.
What I like about “Avatar” is the detail of the environment, the expressive quality of the Na’vi, the sappy stuff….it’s good.
Anyway, like I said, I’m glad you’re passionate about it.
Hey Ryan,beginning tomorrow, I will be there for Awards season!!!! I am thriled to hear of that love from you and Sasha!!!!
Thaks Ari for those welcome clarifications. I cn’t respond to the argument about ‘commercial cinema’ but hopefully I can come back tomorow.
Beyond this post Ari, I’m resisting the backlash. When the awards start piling up it’s going to be really hard, but I’m resisting. The movie was a major disappointment for me, but it was not bad.
As I left the theater the first time I was glad to be done with it and had no interest in another shot, but I’m thinking another whirl in 2D down the road might be a good idea.
Having said that, I watched The Abyss this weekend for the first time in many years. Yes, the ending is still kind of corny, but it works and the rest of it is terrrific.
I miss pre-Titanic James Cameron.
Sam, I’m thrilled you loved Avatar, I’m happy you felt the magic. I can’t challenge your reasons for falling for the movie and wouldn’t want to, but to say in defense that the stuff in Hellboy II was child’s play is absurd.
Yeah, but the awards stuff is pretty silly, isn’t it? I’m not holding that against the film.
“Abyss” is his best work for me.
Also, where is the defensiveness from the pro-Avatar crowd coming from? The movie is hailed as a triumph by most of the best critics, it’s doing great at the box office for a December opening of a film with no brand name and I have no doubt it’s going to come up again and again throughout awards season.
History is written by the winners and this tiny pocket of disappointment will be ignored. Relax.
I’ve not seen Avatar, and personally feel no forward-lash towards it. I have no idea whether I’ll love or hate it, or fall in-between.
The movie has been hailed by critics and has its share of passionate supporters like Ryan, Sasha, and Sam. But to be fair, if I loved a film that much I imagine I’d feel a little defensive or peeved in the face of the substantial volume of criticism readily found online. This is not meant as a complaint about people expressing their sincere dislike for aspects of the film or sense that it has been over-hyped. I just think that defensiveness among its champions is a very human response.
IMO, AVATAR is far and away Cameron’s masterpiece. It’s achieves an emotional level that he and other filmmakers could only dream of achieving.
Ari: To be perfectly honest, when one is ravished to celestial proportions, the last thing I want to talk about is “flaws” or the assertion that “much of the film doesn’t work.” If much of it doesn’t work, I wouldn’t be reacting the way I am. Let’s rectify that. Most of the film WORKS, and a small fraction doesn’t – the price one pays when being this auspicious. I’ll try to be more specific here in framing it:
It has the ruminative profundity of Malick, the grandeur and operatic sweep of THE RETURN OF THE KING, and the metaphysical essence of Aronofsky’s THE FOUNTAIN. After experiencing a film like this the last thing I want to do is sit home and purse my lips and try and act like a judicial figure with a devil’s advocate slant.
I want to dance in the streets and declare how lucky I am to be alive to see something this magnificent. And maybe I would if we weren’t enduring the unplesant aftermath of a powerful snowstorm here in the NYC area. But the King of the World could be ten times more obnoxious and I wouldn’t care, if he’s able to give mankind this kind of a gift, just in time for the holidays.
Craig, I like Hellboy II. But I don’t see it anywhere in this class, especially in an emotional sense.
History is written by the winners and this tiny pocket of disappointment will be ignored. Relax.
Obama won too, Craig. That doesn’t mean we should shrug off attacks against him that we believe are unfounded.
After we’re sure everyone who intends to see Avatar has done so, I’d like to address Jim Emerson’s smirking about illogical iridescent plant life and traits that he thinks serve no evolutionary purpose.
What purpose does this armchair Darwin think the plumage of any creature serves? Has he never heard that dinosaurs might well have been covered in feathers, or that reptilian scales and feather quills are linked in evolution? Why shouldn’t an exotic species of rhino be equipped with a territorial fan-like display?
Did you guys miss the part where all the living creatures, all the flora and fauna, are linked in sympathetic symbiosis? Why do glowy plants need any explanation other than their handy light-providing capability? At my sister’s house, when you walk from room to room, the lights turn on and off as motion sensors detect the presence of a human in room. Cool, huh? Why can’t Pandora’s forest be a linked-in network of natural biotech, just like the plug-n-play braids?
But no, it’s a lot funnier to giggle about Thomas Kinkade. Nevermind that Kinkade himself is only paying homage to the luminous art deco style of Maxfield Parrish, and forget the fact that light itself is one of the most powerful symbolic effects available to any visual artist, throughout history. Because, yeah, just unplug all the damn glowy stuff and the movie would look a whole lot better in total darkness, right?
The lazy criticism that there’s not enough visual imagination going on in the Pandoran landscape starts to fall a little flat when anything that veers too far from what we find on Earth gets laughed at as illogical, silly and pointless.
Why should I relax when my cage is being rattled, Craig? Tap on my tank and I’m gonna react like a Frilled Dragon, ok? Him and his “silly, random” evolutionary senselessness.
In the face of Sam’s ecstatic response I lean over and instruct the passing waitress ‘I’ll have what he’s having’.
Sam, I’m only talking about individual scenes. The effects and imagination. As a whole film, I have huge problems with HB2, much as I liked it.
Sartre, I have yet to run into this “substantial volume of criticism” you’re talking about. It seems about on par with any other widely successful film.
All I’m doing in the face of overwhelming support for the film is point out that not everyone is on board and that some smart and thoughtful people have real issues with the film. If someone doesn’t like it, is it their fault or the filmmakers?
I’m not running around to every blog where the movie is beloved trying to strong arm people into seeing it my way, but I don’t want to sound like I don’t think you’re allowed to disagree with me. I welcome the argument.
There’s right and there’s right and never the twain shall meet.
I suppose I should be happy there is finally some passion in what has largely been a passionless year as far as American movies go.
Craig, some smart and thoughtful people (Manola Dargis, Roger Ebert, New York Films Critics Circle Online Best Picture Award and numerous others have been overwhelmed by the film. Every film has dissent -every single one–even CITIZEN KANE and THE RULES OF THE GAME. Some people instinctively are jealous when they don’t feel what the predominant majority feels and they play the devil’s advocate game. YOU are not remotely such a person, and you’ve handled this whole AVATAR business politely and sincerely throughout.
Stephanie Zacharek is one critic I admire a lot. But I have to laugh when she calls the “dialogue God-Awful.” Who cares about the dialogue?? Is this a theatrical costume drama or satiric comedy? The dialogue fits the characters and the adventurous situations perfectly. What would we have here, creatures speaking with the wit of George Bernard Shaw in these futuristic planetary jungles? that argument is an “excuse” to back up a position. I know that tactic well, as I’ve used it. Ha!
The dialogue is an easy target and for me pretty much irrelevant to my opinion of the film. It was not great, but it didn’t need to be if the visual, immersive, emotional experience had worked on me like it did for others.
I’m jealous to have not had that experience. I’m always happiest being on the side that loves a movie. Luckily, there are lots of films I feel that way about this year, just not Avatar.
Yeah, you lose me when you compare the film to Malick.
That’s okay, I don’t share your enthusiasm, but I do like the film. For me it’s a good movie. It’s good escapism, and because of the immersive 3d imagery, you actually do feel that sense of escape. That’s more than you can say for a lot of other stuff out there.
Malick is an interesting reference point because the last time I had the feeling people are describing with Avatar was The New World.
Not sure if I’m doing a Top 10 of the decade, but I can tell you right now that’s the top.
Ari: I am using the Malick comparison in the sense that there was a ruminative thrust to the way the narrative unfolded, in th esame way that the Tree of Life recalled Aronofsky. I am not saying that AVATAR was a Malick film, just that I saw some Malick influences on Cameron, which should be flattering to Malick.
Hey Craig, I was trying the Top 10 of the decade game yesterday. I will no doubt make many revisions before finalized but here’s the 21 that are being considered in no particular order. Please don’t be diverted from the subject at hand. It’s just a quick addition, no more, brought in also because I value THE NEW WORLD highly, as I do AVATAR.
Far From Heaven
Son Frere
The Return of the King
Mullholland Drive
The New World
Talk To Her
The Fountain
WALL-E
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Dogville
Atonement
The Lives of Others
Once
Bright Star
Avatar
Downfall
Dancer in the Dark
Up
Devils on the Doorstep
Brokeback Mountain
I’m not sure what they spiked your popcorn with Sam, but when you get back to Earth you should figure that one out and let us know because boy, you got the good stuff.
I’m glad you loved the movie, Sam. I find your Hellboy comment a little much and the Mallick connection is going to be awfully hard for me to swallow, but I appreciate your enthusiasm. I wish the film had resonated with me in the same way it did with you, but I do consider things like dialogue important and I’m a little surprised to hear anyone who appreciates theater as much as you so willing to disregard its importance.
Thanks Joel, I must admit I have been animated all day after leaving the theatre. My apologies with HELLBOY, I genuinely like the film and went with 4/5. However, AVATAR is a far deeper emotional and spiritual experience. Cameron is no Malick, but to his credit he was influenced, as per the ruminative flow of some of the narrative.
Joel, I will refer here to a comment made earlier on this thread by Craig Kennedy about the “importance” of dialogue in a film like this to perfectly embody my own point:
“The dialogue is an easy target and for me pretty much irrelevant to my opinion of the film. It was not great, but it didn’t need to be if the visual, immersive, emotional experience had worked on me like it did for others.”
I appreciate good dialogue and it’s true I revel in theatre. But this film is more of a “tone poem” a lyrical film that tells it’s story VISUALLY. That is really what pre cinema is all about. Those who truly love this film passionately won’t care one iota about what was still servicable dialogue. Those who didn’t (as few as they are) will use this card. Fair enough, I say.
I stand by my quote Sam, but I’d also argue that good dialogue is preferable to bad dialogue. It’s not always a determining factor though.
I like your Best of the 00s list. We’ll see if I do one of my own. It would be interesting but flawed. There are so many movies in the first half of the decade (particularly foreign) that I missed becaue I simply wasn’t watching new movies. I was pretty much watching all old movies all the time.
I posted my 25 best movies of the decade over at my site. I thought it was a strong decade overall. lots of interesting films.
It was good to be reminded of the many fine films championed in Sam’s and Ari’s respective best of the decade lists.
That’s a lovely list, Sam. There are 6 films on it I’ve not seen (Son Frere, The Fountain, Bright Star, Dogville, Dancer in the Dark and Devils on the Doorstep). Of the others, the only one on which I’d very much differ with you is Avatar. I’m afraid I’m closer to Jim Emerson on this one than to you. Though I think I admired its technical virtuosity more than he did. I’m truly envious of your ability to enjoy it so much.
Ari’s 2009 and Decade lists are great, too. I love especially these end of decade lists because I inevitably am reminded of films I’d forgotten or missed, or encouraged to revisit and re-evaluate films I’ve seen. Love it.
Thanks Jenny!!! I forgot some though. JESSE JAMES is one that’s definite for example. I need to sit down and do it properly, not off the top of my head. We’ll have to make sure you see those.
And I’ll be over to Ari’s today for sure.
I haven’t read any reviews of Avatar but has anybody talked about the depiction of the Na’vi culture as a representation of different human ethnic groups? It was the one thing that somewhat distracted me throughout the film. People have talked about Dances with Wolves and American Indians, but I thought it was almost like Shaka Zulu for a while, too. The main warrior guy (Jake’s rival) was clearly modeled after an African warrior, and the tribal mother seemed to be some kind of African medicine woman. I don’t know if I’m just projecting my own stereotypes onto these aliens, but that seemed pretty obvious to me (their accents played a part as well).
Anyway, what I’m getting at is that these depictions aren’t offensive on a cultural level but on an imaginative level. People have talked about the visuals being predictable and/or boring, but I was more jarred by how the Na’vi were made up (jewelry included) to look like humans. It’s not like these are humans banished to another planet and evolved into a new human species. They’re totally alien, so why the human cultural traditions?
Also, why did Sigourney Weaver’s avatar wear Timberlands?
lol..Timberlands…and what looked like a USC t-shirt (though it wasn’t). She reminded me of one of those video games where you get to pick a wardrobe for your character and whoever had picked Sigourney’s character went off the grid.
That’s an interesting thought about Shaka Zulu. I was just thinking Native Americans, but it’s reasonable to assume he drew on a number of native cultures.
The human-like Na’vi were part and parcel for me with the make up of the rest of Pandora. Spectacular looking to be sure, but as others have noted, the creatures and plants all seemed to draw from recognizable earthbound flora and fauna. The dude from District 9 seemed more alien to me and he didn’t cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
On the other hand, the business with the Na’vi plugging into creatures with those tentacle things was a bit literal, but it was a neat idea that I hadn’t seen before.
One thing that did strike me after the fact is how few people are criticizing the movie for being yet another depiction of a minority culture rescued from colonialists by a colonialist. The hero always has to be the white person. It’s not an issue that troubles me too much, but people lined up around the block to criticize Blind Side for the same thing.
Daniel, I had that same criticism. It’s a sci-fi petpeeve of mine long predating Avatar.
I’m also tired of always experiencing native cultures from the white guy’s perspective. At least in The New World, for instance, there was more of an effort to see things from the native perspective throughout. With all the Native American commentary swirling around Avatar, it’s interesting here in Fort Smith where we are right on the border of Indian Territory with plenty of Cherokee and Choctaw tribes all around us. A friend on Facebook today wrote of Avatar: “I’ve heard a mixture of Dances with Wolves and the Pocahontas story. And that is exactly the native issue…we want to see some stuff with our POV. Oh well I’ll probably watch it just to see the effects. :) It’s funny cause on status updates of my friends, the non-native folks love it and the native folks are like wtf? lol”
I don’t mind seeing the culture through the eyes of someone familiar but I do have issues when said familiar white guy not only masters their culture and becomes an accepted member of the group but is elevated to some mystical savior. It bugged the hell out of me in The Last Samurai and in Dances with Wolves and this film is no exception.
The New World has a similar element, except that in The New World the white guy is neither the savior nor the hero of the story. His participation in the lives of his adopted brethren comes to absolutely no good.
I didn’t mind Cameron picking elements of various Earth cultures to create the Na’vi but I was hoping they would be physically more exciting. The plug-in brain braid was a nice conceit, but otherwise the Na’vi are just bipedal humanoids. When Cameron originally broached the idea that technology would have to catch up to his ideas, I figured these aliens would be more environment-specific like the aliens in The Abyss.
Imagine the white guy hero falling in love with the most beautiful jellyfish alien imaginable. Now that would have been an impressive storytelling feat.
Avatar is going to be this year’s The Dark Knight where any resistance is shot down, stepped on and set on fire
Funny … I thought that was Inglorious Basterds.
People — like me — who thought it was just “all right,” but flawed, and pointed out the flaws, got flamed by those who thought it was the second coming of Kubrick or Welles or something. Sounds like the same thing is happening here. If it’s got crappy dialog, it’s got crappy dialog. Every movie is flawed, and it is the critic’s job to point those flaws out.
Rick, I don’t remember you being in the IB discussion over here last Summer, but not all of us were head over heels for it and the flaws and frustrations were discussed. Granted, even though I had issues with it I still found it fairly successful overall and so I’ve been less critical of it than I have been of Avatar.
It just seems that those championing Avatar are steamrolling any dissent (much like the insane fan boy defenses of TDK on other sites last year). I honestly have not seen that sort of response anywhere I frequent to Inglorious Basterds this year. I’m sorry to hear that has been your experience.
Rick, I think you’re right about IB (hell, I did my share of criticizing a certain reviewer though my issue was not that he hated the film, but the reasons he gave for it) and it probably applies to any film for which there is a passionate base.
The difference is that IB was much less widely embraced than TDK or Avatar. The people who didn’t like it are definitely in the minority with the latter films. Yet as Joel pointed out, the majority feels the need to steamroll as though their appreciation of the movie is somehow threatened.
I got a little of that with TDK when people took issue with one tiny nitpick I had in what was otherwise an overwhelmingly positive review. I haven’t gotten that so much with Avatar because I’m small and really no one cares what I think, but I’ve seen dissenters at some of the fanboy sights getting abused left and right.
Joel, when one has the kind of spiritual experience I had with AVATAR, my boundless enthusiasm can be forgiven, no? It’s like, “c’mon guys, how could you not have felt that?” Steam rolling isn’t as bad as you make it out to be, since it’s primary intent is to spread the word. We really need more excitement these days, not the usual “but….” If you didn’t feel it, fine, but those of us who did can help ourselves.
And that’s a very good thing methinks.
Hey Craig, am I that “reviewer” you are speaking of? Or do I flatter myself?
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually Sam, it was Jeff Wells. He found Inglourious Basterds to be morally reprehensible killiing for the sake of killing, but thought the recent Rambo remake was just dandy.
I tried a number of times to call him out on his hypocrisy, but he ignored me.
I don’t have a problem with anyone who wasn’t taken by the film, even if I disagree, but if your reasoning is irrational and hypocritical, that bugs me.
If memory serves, you found the movie equal parts boring and repulsive. I can’t really argue with that even though my experience was much different.
Craig, I don’t want to throw out insults, but Jeff Wells is one reviewer I have little respect for. And if he thought RAMBO was OK, then he is the consumate hypocrite and deserved being called out.
Imagine the white guy hero falling in love with the most beautiful jellyfish alien imaginable. Now that would have been an impressive storytelling feat.
That would be awesome.
“because I’m small and really no one cares what I think”
But you’re the little film critic who could!
“I think I can, I think I can, I think I can!!!”
Steam rolling isn’t as bad as you make it out to be, since it’s primary intent is to spread the word. We really need more excitement these days, not the usual “but….” If you didn’t feel it, fine, but those of us who did can help ourselves.
And that’s a very good thing methinks.
I think you’ve misinterpreted “steamrolling,” but maybe not. It happened with The Dark Knight, when the rare reviewers who were willing to criticize the film’s flaws were besieged with bile and anger. Their criticisms typically weren’t even considered. They were deemed fools for disagreeing with the masses, as far as these angry hecklers were concerned.
“Steamrolling opinions” typically has the opposite effect of encouraging the dissenters to disagree with the majority. Not only does it come across as hostile, disrespectful, and abusive, but it tends to cast whatever is being argued for in an even worse light.
Ok Joel, well presented. I have no rebuttal.
But here is that man Armond White, spreading his typical propaganda again:
http://www.nypress.com/article-20710-blue-in-the-face.html
Oh, there’s good old Armond White being controversial again.
“Imagine the white guy hero falling in love with the most beautiful jellyfish alien imaginable. Now that would have been an impressive storytelling feat.
That would be awesome.
That would be Ponyo.
That would be funny if it were accurate.
For a shelter from the AVATAR storm, it sure is getting talked about a lot in here. :-P
oh sorry, joel.
I thought the topic was “absurdity” not “taxonomy”
I forgot how Ponyo was so biologically accurate.
It’s the closest Japanese interspecies romance I could think of that doesn’t have pixilated genitalia.
your rigorous watchdogging is a perfect fit for this killjoy discussion though. I’ll check back some other time when the atmosphere is a tad less sourpussyish.
“your rigorous watchdogging is a perfect fit for this killjoy discussion though. I’ll check back some other time when the atmosphere is a tad less sourpussyish.”
Indeed, Ryan, indeed.
Sorry Ryan. My inner child went rogue.
(Spoilers)
Everything that has been said about Avatar, I agree with. Without being a snob, I could have composed a better soundtrack with Garageband on my Mac! But I had a ‘light bulb moment’. Avatar has a 12A certificate, not exactly for a mature audience? So I took on board that I would not be asked
to exercise ‘the muscle that counts’. I hope next time someone will take twelve years to produce a solid script, story and characters. What happened to the other Avatars in training? ‘unobtaineum’! lazy. Oh yeah, 12A, I almost forgot. It was beautiful to behold though and balletic movements were well captured.
Right AC. Of course. After reading this exquisite and highly mature assessment I am completely with you. I experienced a spiritual epiphany twice over the past week watching it, but after reading what you said I have completely changed my mind and realized what a fool I was.
(Spoilers)
Sam Juliano:-
Fool? Far from it. We entered the theatre hoping that it would address what we as individuals wanted from this film. I wanted the script to be formidable, but I would have been happy with WALL-E type expression. My science head was screaming that vocal cords (if that was what they had) would not vibrate the same way in the moon’s atmosphere: what about the difference in gravity in the battle scene ? Do not get me started on the ethnic imbalance! No you were not being foolish, you simply wanted the ’slipper to fit’; so did we all :-)
Ah yes, AC, “The ethnic imbalance.” That’s exactly what miffed me about the film. This was first and foremost a sociological study, and I can’t imagine how the masses worldwide would be going in there to be “entertained.” How could anyone think that the “script” wasn’t the most important element in this film?! All these idiots are railing on about the “visuals.”
After your special insights, I have now decided to bring a notebook and pen for every future movie appearance I make. I wouldn’t dare risk getting fooled again, my friend.
Cheers!
Thanks for stopping by AC.
I take it you and Sam know each other?
We’re best of friends Craig. I met up with AC a few years back at the London Symphony Hall, and it was male bonding immediately. He’s taught me the error of my ways on more than a few occasions.
As with almost any sci-fi/fantasy epic, there are tons of plotholes and ways to nitpick the film, and I’ve done many of them myself. It’s hard to resist. That said, I think that for Avatar’s passionate proponents, the immersive visual experience and noble themes are transcendent and revelatory enough that such criticisms seem not only irrelevant but downright disrespectful.
For me, the Avatar experience was no more transcendent than any other big pretty film is, and much less than some. So pointing out the logical inconsistencies like AC and others have done seems like fair game to me–and moreover something that can be done without in any way being dismissive of or detracting from its ardent fans’ experience of the film. No one’s reaction is “right” or “wrong” and no one is an idiot for whatever subjective experience they had with the film. We have to be free to converse about it and learn to see each other’s point of view with respect, whether we embrace it or not.
OK, I’m off my idealistic six-legged high horse for now.
No you were not being foolish, you simply wanted the ’slipper to fit’; so did we all :-)
I daresay the two of you went in with different-sized feet. The slipper that fit Sam like a second skin was pretty but uncomfortably pinched for AC. And that’s as it should be. Those one-size-fits-all clothes never look right on anybody.
Good Sam! I was shocked at your sarcasm so I was hoping you and AC had a past together. I feel better now.
That’s the thing about the nitpicking JB. I thought I was pretty clear in my review of what was wrong with the movie and I wasn’t just being nitpicky as I have here and in assorted comments. No one has really addressed the problems I had as I wrote about them in the review. The nitpicking is a symptom of not having had the transcendent experience the film’s fans are having, not the cause of it.
I am going to watch The Day of the Triffids (made for tv). I wonder when the technical advances we have seen in Avatar will filter down to the small screen?
I must say, I laughed out loud at the thought of meeting you all for a face to face debate. Surely, we live in different time zones.(why to I always hear,”Don’t call me Shirley”, when I use ’surely’. This must be a sign I have watched too many films. I have enjoyed putting my ‘two cents in’ and I hope to become a regular. Thank you for your warm welcome.
This is where I’ve come to do my little happy dance…BI-GE-LOW, BI-GE-LOW, BI-GE-LOW!!!
Lol, Paul. You crack me up.
lol…. I have to say: I’m delighted.